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Interview with Johnny Graham
Johnny Graham: Things are lively in Japan. Everyone is always busy and in a hurry. The Japanese people are actually party animals. When a lot of them get off their jobs, It's Party Time! Japan is filled with countless numbers of clubs. Shot bars, hostess clubs, discos, hard rock clubs, trance clubs, jazz clubs, etc. And a lot of concerts featuring artists from the USA.
I first came to Japan in the seventies with EW&F, but I didn't return to Japan until 1993, for a short tour with the L.A. All Stars. After that tour, the following month I returned to Japan for a six-month stay playing at a nightclub in Nagoya, Japan. After that, I just kept coming back to Japan and loving it. I started playing at a club in Osaka in December of 1995 and played at that same club on and off for four years. I married a Japanese lady in 1997, so here I am in Osaka.
Any new cuisine you've been enjoying?
I'm not eating any different than I did in the USA. I started eating Sushi before I ever came to Japan in the seventies. I tend to eat a good deal of Thai food, that's my favorite here in Japan and in the U.S. I speak very little Japanese. I haven't put much effort into learning to speak Japanese. One can get around pretty easily here with just English. I very rarely work with Japanese musicians so there is no problem in that area. (And I do think that the Japanese people are more so party animals than Americans.)
Tell us a little about how you got started in music from what, I imagine, was a young age? Who were your music heroes?
My first experience with music was singing in the elementary school chorus. (I had a very good voice back then, I wish that I had kept it up. My singing would be much better than it is now.)
I started playing trumpet when I was in the sixth grade and continued on trumpet through three semesters of college. I was turned on to guitar when I was about 15. My next door neighbor, who was about 35, played guitar. He would just play these honky tonk/blues rhythms all through the night. And he would let bands rehearse in his house, so his house was like a rehearsal studio. I would go over there and watch the guys playing guitar. One day my neighbor got a new guitar and threw his old one in the trash. I quickly grabbed up that old guitar. The guitar only had two tuning machines on it, so I played a guitar with only two strings for a couple of months. I purchased my first electric guitar from a pawn shop, it was a Kingston. I started playing in clubs very soon after getting the Kingston guitar, before I was 16.
The guitarists that I was into back then were Freddy King, Albert King, George Benson, Wes Montgomery, and later Jimi Hendrix. I'm also a big fan of James Brown and Bobby Womack. Yngwie Malmsteen is also one of my favorites. (I know a lot of guitarists like to put Yngwie down, but Yngwie is "The Man!")
And what led to your becoming a member of EW&F?
Back in Kentucky, where I was raised, I played with some friends who later became a group named New Birth. I played with the New Birth on dates around the Midwest occasionally, but when the New Birth started doing serious time on the road, I was in electronic school and stayed home in Louisville. One day in 1972, I got a call from this guy named Maurice White; he told me that the guys in the New Birth had told him about me and he wanted me to come to Hollywood and join his group called Earth, Wind & Fire. I had never heard of this group and I was the top student in my class at the electronics institute, so I told Maurice, "No man, I can't come to Hollywood, I'm in school right now." But three days later, I called Maurice back and told him to send me a ticket. So, that's how I got into EW&F.
Johnny, that would have been right at a crucial time, and you were part of a line-up change resulting in EW&F's 1973 release, "Head To The Sky," which is generally acknowledged as the beginning of EW&F's "modern" sound. Tell us a little about the time right after flying out to Hollywood and the atmosphere during the initial formation of the new line-up. How was the interpersonal chemistry?
When I first arrived in Hollywood I stayed with Maurice at his house in West Hollywood. It was a big difference being in Hollywood than being in Kentucky! Hollywood was a trip! It was like being in a cartoon world. "HOLLYWEIRD!" This was the first time that I had played with a group in which I didn't know any of the musicians, not one of them! Maurice was older and much more experienced than all the rest of us in the group, so we were for the most part wide-eyed school kids, learning the ropes.
The first time I played with the guys it was with only Maurice on drums and Verdine on bass in a rehearsal studio. (Maurice wanted to feel me out ... a lot of folks don't know that Maurice is a drummer.) Maurice really blew me away, he was the wildest drummer I'd ever seen. This guy played drums like a madman. He played drums like a lion chasing its prey.
Did Al McKay join EW&F right at the same time as you?
When I arrived on the scene, guitarist Roland Batista had recently left the group to pursue a solo career. I think Roland had only been with the group a few months. But sometime before I played with the group, Al McKay had done some dates with the group. But Al didn't stay around long, he was playing with Isaac Hayes and was committed to that gig. I think that it was near the end of 1972 when Al had finished his stint with Isaac Hayes that he returned to EW&F.
As far as when I felt that we "had made it," I never really had thoughts on things like that. I was busy doing the gig, learning the business and seeing the world. When I received my first large check, the thing I focused on was tax strategies. And, of course, I picked up a lot of guitars and other gear. At one time I had over 35 guitars. Right now, I only have 17 guitars.
Could you give us an idea of some of the guitar/amp/pedals set-ups you were using with EW&F?
When I flew to Hollywood from Kentucky I took with me my Gibson 345 Stereo guitar and a Vox Super Beatle Amp. I used that amp and guitar for a good while. But my favorite amp that I used during my time with EW&F was a Music Man 210. This was a small amp with two 10-inch speakers. Being such a small amp, I could push it hard on stage and still not be too loud for the vocalist. And that amp really sang. I used an Ibanez Tube Screamer for my leads sounds on stage. Also, I used a Wah Wah, a phase shifter and a chorus pedal (exactly which models I don't remember). Sometimes I would try other amp and pedal setups on the road, but the simple things seemed to work best. I also used a Travis Bean guitar for leads sometimes and that worked out pretty well. For rhythm on stage I would use a Les Paul and a Stratocaster. The 345 Gibson would later be used only for solos in the studio.
Tell us about the solo on "That's The Way Of The World."
Well, we recorded that album up in the mountains of Colorado and we were up there cutting the basic tracks. Then we returned to L.A. Later, we made another trip to Colorado to finish up the tracks and the only guitar that I had with me was a brand new Stratocaster that I had purchased in Denver. Up until this time I had only been playing on my Gibson 345, which has a short scale of 24.5 inches. A Strat is a long scale guitar, 25.5 inches. So, Maurice calls me into the studio to cut a solo and I didn't have my solo guitar with me, the 345 was in Hollywood. A Strat being a long scale guitar, the action was stiffer than my Gibson. So, here I am cutting a solo with a brand new guitar, stiff action and all, I was struggling to play the thing. Consequently, the solo on "That's The Way Of The World" was more tame than I would have played it if I'd had my 345 Gibson with me. But, it turned out cool, "less is more!"
What are you using now? Some of your main instruments?
Today my set up is quite simple: I use a Peavey TUBEFEX preamp running through a VHT Two/Fifty/Two power amp. My cabinets are loaded with Celestion G12T-75 speakers. The only pedal I use is a Dunlop 535Q Wah Wah. The Peavey TUBEFEX has all the other effects that I use incorporated into it. (However, I do use a MIDI pedal for changing the programs on the TUBEFEX preamp.) For leads now I use Ibanez JEM style guitars with scalloped fingerboards. I use a DiMarzio Tone Zone pickup in the bridge position and a DiMarzio "Fred" pickup in the neck position. For rhythms I use Strat style guitars with my own custom wirings. I have an Ibanez GB-10 George Benson guitar that I like to practice on. I have heavy strings on it, .014, .055, and the action set up very high. Practicing on the GB-10 really strengthens my hands and fingers. But, nowadays I tend to set the string action high on all my guitars, it just makes everything more expressive.
How did the exposure to EW&F change the way you see and live in the world? Were the metaphysical and spiritual principles referred to in the works of EW&F something that was a part of the daily lives of the members?
Maurice was a student of Egyptology and such things. So, Maurice incorporated a lot of his studies into the song lyrics that he wrote. Maurice got into the Transendental Meditation thing in the late seventies. And most of the other members got involved in the TM thing for a while but I was not included in that movement. I was raised in the Christian church and remain a Christian until this day. (Now, this doesn't mean that I didn't get into the thrills of Rock & Roll and the "spoils" of being on the road...) But I didn't get off into those various philosophies that the group was thought to be into. (I did get involved into Yoga for a brief period.) For a while at the venues that we'd play at there would be a special room set aside for the guys to go meditate. I never participated. Maurice once said to me, "I guess you don't feel the need to meditate." I just said, "Nope."
Philip Bailey came to me once after he had became a Christian and gotten out of the TM trip. He explained to me how the whole TM thing wasn't the way to go and that I should get out of it. I told him, "I never was into TM!" I think that in the earlier days of the group there were some books and such that were passed around but for the most part I was not involved.
Johnny, could you tell us a little about some of what you feel were the highlights with your time in EW&F? Also, anything about the studio sessions, especially surrounding the recording of some of the huge and influential albums such as "Open Our Eyes" (1973), "That's The Way Of The World" (1975), "Spirit" (1976), "All 'n All" (1977), and "I Am" (1979). Was there a certain "vibe" on many of those sessions, or was it more a matter, as reported by some, that it really came down to a lot of hard work?
What I consider as the highlights for me during my time with EW&F is being associated and working with such people as Charles Stepney and George Massenburg! Charles was truly a genius; extremely talented and knowledgeable. Charles wrote and arranged the music to some of the real big hits that EW&F; recorded. "Reasons," "That's The Way Of The World," and others great songs. I remember thinking to myself back during the times that those sessions were taking place, watching Charles work, "Man, it would take about three life times to accumulate the musical knowledge that Charles Stepney has." Charles was truly phenomenal. And George Massenburg is just brilliant! When I first saw George in action I immediately sensed that he was someone special even though I hadn't been introduced to him and didn't know his name. George was extremely knowledgeable and confident. It seemed like George just knew it all! And on top of all that George was very polite and modest. Working with Charles and George was a blessing and a pleasure.
Dan, I would say that all of the album sessions had their own special "vibe." Each session had a starting point, a "seed." And every seed has its own identity, its own vibe. So, the vibe of each session contributed to whatever magic each song has. And all of the sessions were the results of hard work, bringing each song from the "seed thought" it started as to the final product that it is.
In my opinion the music of EW&F would not be classified as "Funk." I would put EW&F into a different "bag." R&B/Groove music is the label that I'll put on most of the EW&F music. The rhythm section of EW&F wasn't coming from a funky place but rather concentrated on locking down a groove. And there is a difference between music being groovy and music being funky. I think that there can be a dotted line drawn between the three labels: R&B, Soul and Funk.
In the music that I am working on now I have a few songs that are similar to the things that EW&F did in the past. One R&B groove song and one Latin Jazz type song, etc. But most of my current music I would call Funk and Funk/Rock. If you get a chance to here the title cut from the CD "Return of the Gypsy," (this is the Jimi Hendrix tribute CD that I have two songs on), that song is what I would label as Funk/Rock. But I don't lock myself down into one style so my music varies from song to song.
The music that I lisen to now is mainly old stuff that I have in my collection. Here in Japan, I don't listen to the radio but I occasionally lisen to new songs when they are previewed on the internet. When I make trips back to the U.S. I listen to what's happening on the radio and most of it doesn't interest me.
Johnny Graham: I did my last Gig with "The L.A. All Stars" back in April of 1999 and right after that I decided to put a unit together of my own. Finding a name wasn't difficult the name Wild Fire came to me right away. Basically this unit plays EW&F material and gives the fans here in Japan a chance to see some of the EW&F musicians up close and personal. Along with myself, there's a keyboardist Larry Dunn, trumpet players Michael Harris and Rham Lee Michael Davis, (former members of EW&F); and on bass I use Bobby Watson from Rufus & Chaka Khan. We perform with 10 to 12 pieces so we can really do things in the EW&F style. The line-up of musicians may change from gig to gig, depending on who is available at the time. On our last gig in Kyoto, Japan I also was able to bring over vocalist, Mr. Beloyd Taylor, writer of the EW&F hit song "Get Away." I am the only one located in Japan, so it's not often that I get to bring that size group over. But when the funds are available we "Get Down!"
If I remember correctly, The L.A. All Stars was put together by Al McKay. Tell us a little bit about that project. And also some background about EW&F; around 1982 when the line-up of the group started to change. Any particular reason you went your own way in '82?
In 1982 there was a new contract put on the table for the members of EW&F I didn't agree with certain circumstances surrounding this contract change and I didn't sign the new contract. So, I was "outta there!"
I'm not sure when Al McKay first started The L.A. All Stars, but I first played with the group around 1991 in Los Angeles. Then, in 1993 The L.A. All Stars made its first appearance in Japan. I played dates with Al's group on and off up until 1999. Presently, I think that Al has changed the name of his group to The Al McKay All Stars and Al is still taking that unit on the road.
If we could back up a bit to some guitar technique and parts played on E,W&F albums, how did you and Al McKay either figure out your parts, or decide who would play what? On "September," who is playing the percussive counter-melody guitar that's predominant on the left side? You, by chance? Was that part played by pull/plucking the strings between the thumb and index or middle finger? It's almost like a funk slap bass approach.
Maurice was the person who decided who would play the particular guitar parts. On the song "September," Al McKay is playing that popping line. He is pulling and popping the string between two fingers. Al did teach himself to do the bass slapping style on guitar but I don't recall him ever using that style on an EW&F recording.
The last time that I talked to Al, he told me that people had thought that he was playing the rhythm guitar part on Ramsey Lewis' "Sun Goddess," but he told them that it was me that did the "Sun Goddess" sessions. So, people do get confused as to who is playing the guitar parts on the records. On one of the songs in the box CD set "Eternal Fire," whomever wrote the credits in the booklet that comes in the box set gave Al credit for a part that I was playing also.
How has your approach to playing the guitar changed since you left EW&F?
What has changed as a result of me leaving EW&F actually is the way I play on stage at gigs. All down through the years that I have been playing guitar I have experimented with different techniques, changing my techniques and improving on my technique. But my style of playing has pretty much stayed the same. While I was with EW&F, I played what fit into Maurice's bag and I was limited as to what I could get off into. But when playing and recording at home "back in the day," I did my own thing. For example, back in the seventies I had an 8-track studio set up in my home and Philip Bailey came over once to record a track that he was going to sing along with on the TBN Christian TV show "Praise The Lord." And while he was there I played some of the tracks that I had recorded for him, and he said, "Who is that on guitar???" On those tapes, I was playing a style that he was not aware that I could play. The same thing would happen out on the road in the late seventies when I would be listening to some of my tracks and the guys would overhear them and say, "Who is that on guitar???" So, what has really changed since I left EW&F is that I am free to play on stage the style of guitar that I am really into.
When people hear my recording "Return Of The Gypsy," they ask me, "When did you start playing like that???" Well, I was playing like that before I left Kentucky in 1972! The style that I play on "Return Of The Gypsy" is not a surprise to the people that know me back in Louisville, Kentucky.
What's happening musically these days for you?
Right now I'm gearing up to do some more recording and release a complete CD on myself. I will be producing, writing, engineering, sequencing, etc. I will be using other musicians, bass & keyboards. I program all my drum and percussion parts myself. I really don't need to focus on writing right now, I have a ton of songs that I've written just waiting to be used.
I'm close to finishing my studio setup here at home. So far, I have a Tascam MX-2424SE with the analog card, a Tascam DM-24, a Universal Audio 2-610, a tc electronic Reverb 4000, a Korg Triton Rack, an Alesis D4 and for monitors I'm using the Yamaha MSP5's. I use an old Roland MV30 Studio M for sequencing, I've been using that MV30 for 10 years now. I'm planning on getting the Tascam SX-1 to add to my setup, but as far as I know, Tascam hasn't released the cascade card needed to mate the DM-24 with the SX-1. I'll be adding a Roland XV-5080 also. I buy most of my gear in the USA, most prices are lower there. On my next trip to L.A., I'll be picking up a Lexicon PCM 81 and a Distressor.
Right now I've just got to dig into the Tascam gear that I have and learn the ins and outs of it.
As someone who grew up on EW&F, it's been a thrill to interview you. Thanks again, Johnny.
PEACE!
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Dan Richards: Johnny, how's life treating you in Japan, and what led to your moving there?